[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
Re: orion-list Leo's Objections - Essenes, Zias article, etc.
Dear Leo,
I agree that the "library" of Qumran (scattered amongst the caves)
could VERY WELL come from different times and different groups.
But does this mean we throw our hands up in despair? No. We look
at the significant works and we evaluate WHICH seems to fit best
with the principle Jewish sects: Is it Sadduccean? Is it Pharisaic?
Is it Essenian? Or is it something else?
When Josephus and Hippolytus say that the PRINCIPLE sects of
Judaism are the three above, it is not to EXCLUDE. It is to provide
rough and general categories. And yet, even with these rough categories,
it is possible to see congruence between most of the DSS texts and the
Essene/Zealot points of view (by Essene/Zealot I am touching on the
Masada group that seems to sum up everything we can glean from
the DSS material).
As far as the war with the Romans, obviously there is no OBLIGATION
to go to war. But there are PLENTY of references that SUPPORT an
individual,
family, clan, or anyother DSS-type group, who might decide they needed
to. And when you throw in the War Scroll, obviously these people were
not
just knitting sweaters.....
Regarding your 3rd paragraph.... Where on earth did you get these ideas?
> 3. Hippolytus most certainly confused the Hasmonean rulers and the
> Essenes on the question of forced conversions. There would have been
> no room for such converts in the Yahad community.
> You cannot accept the authenticity of the Community Rule when it
> suits you and ignore it when you are trying to justify its
> rejection.
I strongly doubt that Hippolytus was confused on such matters. And it is
not clear to me what part of the Community Rule do you think I'm
ignoring?
I look forward to your clarifications...
George Brooks
Tampa, FL
George.X.Brooks@JUNO.com
On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 01:10:04 -0700 leorose@Juno.Com writes:
> Dear George,
>
> 1. You did not get my point. I did not say that the manuscripts were
> not essenian, I stated that they did not all belong to one group.
> Some of the writings may have been essenian and some not.
> I follow Prof. Norman Golb's suggestion that the manuscripts came
> from the main library of the Temple in Jerusalem and that they were
> brought to Qumran - and hidden in caves - for safekeeping.
> As in all libraries, we find books from many different authors. That
> would explain the diversity of the manuscripts.
>
> 2. There is no reference in the Community Rule to the obligation to
> go to war against the Romans. The Zealots and many of the
> Pharisees, and probably Saduccees, were engaged in that war, but not
> the Essenes, from what we know. They were dreaming of an apocalyptic
> war between the Children of Light and the Children of Darkness. That
> is quite another matter.
>
> You refer to the fact that Philo describes a group of 'Therapeutae'
> and it just so happens that one of the main meanings of 'asa' in
> Aramaic is healer or doctor!
>
> 3. Hippolytus most certainly confused the Hasmonean rulers and the
> Essenes on the question of forced conversions. There would have been
> no room for such converts in the Yahad community.
> You cannot accept the authenticity of the Community Rule when it
> suits you and ignore it when you are trying to justify its
> rejection.
>
> As to the Copper Scrolls, no amount of far-fetched imaginary
> interpretations will succeed in belittling their importance as to
> ignore their presence as Father Roland de Vaux and many others did,
> calling them 'fairy tales'. It discredited their scholarly ability.
> You are right, they must have belonged to the Sadduccees, the tax
> collectors of the time.
>
> Leo Abrami For private reply, e-mail to leorose@juno.com
For private reply, e-mail to George Brooks <george.x.brooks@juno.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from Orion, e-mail to majordomo@panda.mscc.huji.ac.il with
the message: "unsubscribe Orion." For more information on the Orion Center
or for Orion archives, visit our web site http://orion.mscc.huji.ac.il.