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Re: orion Copper Scroll & the Persian Influence

I cannot help but point out that the Persian connection had certainly NOT
died out 300 years ago.  Babylonian Judaism was still quite vital at the
time.  And beyond the fact that Aramaic was a primary PERSIAN language of
the Middle East, there are the puzzling elements of Essene tradition
which harken back to a continuing Persian influence.  At least one of the
ancients writers makes the amazing reference to Essenes hiding their
"bathroom" activities from the gaze of the sun, as though to keep from
polluting the holiness of this heavenly object.  This interest in
avoiding pollution and of the eminence of the Sun seems much more Persian
than anything else.  Even the much earlier Pythagoras was said to have
obtained similar interests from his travels into Persia.


George Brooks  (813) 886-9643
George.X.Brooks@Juno.Com

On Mon, 31 Aug 1998 07:38:47 EDT RLWinnetka@aol.com writes:
>In a message dated 98-08-18 00:39:29 EDT, Frank Rosenthal wrote:
>
><< Robert Leonard calls attention to the  apparent similarity of 
>Elephantine
>use
> of KARSh as a prototype for the Copper Scroll.  Is it feasable to 
>assume that
> a Judaean writer would use this Persian unit rather than the 
>traditional
> talent, whether the local or imperial Roman variety?  After all, the 
>Persian
> connection had disappeared over 300 years ago and Judaea was a 
>significant
> element in Mediterranean commerce. 
> >>
>
>
>The word "talent" ("kikkarin") occurs spelled out in the Copper Scroll 
>as well
>as "kk", and in treasure #56 by Dr. Lefkovits's numbering both terms 
>are
>mentioned.  The old term "mina" is also present, as is stater.  As to 
>whether
>a Persian unit would still be in use in the first century, I don't 
>think this
>impossible as the spoken language was Aramaic and the use of karsh had 
>spread
>beyond Judaea to Egypt by 400 B.C.E.
>
>More questionable is the fact that "karsh" is never spelled out and 
>seems not
>to be mentioned in documents after the Elephantine papyri.  However, 
>it makes
>sense for archaelogical reasons, as the treasures are a convenient 
>size to be
>concealed if their weights are in karsh (and are all bigger than the 
>largest
>coin hoard ever found in  Israel if their weights are in talents).
>
>Also, if "kk" is an abbreviation for talent, then the weights in the 
>Copper
>Scroll are expressed in staters, minas, and talents: the mina is 
>roughly 50
>times the stater, and the talent 60 times the mina.  If "kk" is an 
>abbrevation
>for karsh, then the ratio is 20 times (karsh-stater), 2.5 times 
>(mina-karsh,
>assuming that karsh means 10 14-gram shekel coins by tale), and 60 
>times
>(talent-mina).  The latter, while not in our accustomed decimal form, 
>seems
>easier to use in describing the weights of treasures.
>
>While the question is clearly unsettled, I am inclined to accept Dr.
>Lefkovits's suggestion that "kk" refers to karsh.
>
>Best regards,
>Robert D. Leonard
>Winnetka, Illinois
>U.S.A.
>

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