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Re: question
Dear NPL,
You seem to be mixing the idea of the remnant with Sectarianism. It is
quite probalby that later Jewish sectarians saw them selves as the chosen
remnant, as did, indeed, already the Exilic community according to
Ezekiel, but to say that isaiah 4 is the beginning of sectarianism is to
confuse the idea on which something is based with the later develpoment.
i am aware that you might not view Isaiah ben Amotz as a prophet of the
the Assyrian period and certainly not any of the prophecies placed in the
book bearing his name. NOnetheless, this position may not be acceptable
to those with whom you are discussing the point, so clarify please.
Victor AVigdor Hurowitz
Dept of Bible and ANE
Ben Gurion University
Beer Sheva, ISRAEL
Dear VAH
I am only mixing remnant with sect if I adopt a certain historical
reconstruction.
If you do not see Isaiah as a prophet from the 8th cent, or better
his book as a collection not predating Trito-Isaiah (which it can as
a book not), then any indication of sectarianism (or perhaps better
the idea of being a special religious community separated from the
world) also in the Hebrew Bible fits in a socio-political and
religious framework as present in (Philip D.) the Persian period or
even later.
I.e.: The origin of the idea of sectarianism should be studied, not
as something which relates to sectarianism inside the Jewish
community, but as something which marked out a religious group in
contrast to a wider world. F.ex. is this an intellectual enterprise
or a national idea shared by all members of what was to be the
Palestinian Jewish society in Greco-Roman times? How far does this
idea relates with e.g. Herodotus' idea of the Hellenes as forming a
nation (would his idea have been shared by the 95%+ who tilled the
land around in Greece?).
It wouldn't help in this connection to refer to traditional
historical reconstructions, saying 1) Isaiah wrote about a history to
come (and the post-exilic remnant) or accepting at face value 2) the traditional idea
of the remnant which returned from the exile. A more subtle approach
will be needed - and here we really move on to one of Philip Davies
favourite themes, the unlikeliness of the biblical idea of an exile:
Is the exile a historical fact as described or a ideological matrix
for claiming the land?
We can continue for a long time along these lines, but let it be
enough for a starter. Still, when discussing the situation in
Palestine in the 5th century, the so-called Gedenkschrift of Nehemiah
is a most interresting experience.
NPL
Otherwise it is probably more suited for IOUDAIOS than for Orion (not
said to stop the discussion)
Niels Peter Lemche
Dep. Biblical Studies
University of Copenhagen
Phone: 45 49 13 81 24
Fax: 45 49 13 81 28
e-mail: npl@teol.ku.dk